Blood is Thicker than Bor Bor
The mother-in-law runs a couple, they have to be registered with the commune chief who vets the 'elder' running it and whilst can't guarantee the money, usually won't allow just anyone to run it without any standing/trustworthiness in the commune. How do 'players' check this? I have no idea - but generally the group should be a close-knit bunch, which is odd given that the 'winner' is basically subjecting the first round 'winner' to a life of continued poverty! (as far as I can tell).
It isn't like liar's dice sorry - the Tong Tin amount is predetermined and stays the same throughout the 'game' - so if you're in a $50 Tong Tin, each month you need to bring that amount as it might be the amount you have to pay (maximum). However, the 'winner' each month doesn't get the $50 - depending on whether they want the pot or not, they have to submit their secret amount on paper, rolled up & then controlled by the Tong Tin leader.
If say on Round 1 you are desperate for the pot, but you know somebody else wants it, you have to try to judge how much you'll need to bid to get the pot - but not too high, else you'll end up with no money. I.e. if you bid $50 (extremely stupid), then you'd definitely win - but the other players would only need to contribute $50 (the game amount) minus your bid .. $50 = $0! More common are small bids of perhaps a dollar or two, so in a game with ten players for instance, if $2 is the winning bid, then 9 players must give $48 to the winner, who also keeps their own $50. So the winner receives $432 from others & keeps their $50, thus walks away with $482.
This is where my understanding gets hazy, to my knowledge, any winners then must pay $50 for subsequent rounds - so they'd end up paying out $450 over the next nine months. In this example, they're paying a $18 fee over the course of the Tong Tin, but get access to their funding much quicker. The benefit for the person going last is that they are lending out something like $48 each month, but then at the end receive $50 from everyone else. Everyone else falls between those two evils.
Of course, if you want the pot and can get away with it with a very low bid then your loss is much reduced - in a way, the 'winner' is getting a say in what fee they're willing to pay to get the pot.
If you read that & are still confused, join the club - I'll find that worked example!
It isn't like liar's dice sorry - the Tong Tin amount is predetermined and stays the same throughout the 'game' - so if you're in a $50 Tong Tin, each month you need to bring that amount as it might be the amount you have to pay (maximum). However, the 'winner' each month doesn't get the $50 - depending on whether they want the pot or not, they have to submit their secret amount on paper, rolled up & then controlled by the Tong Tin leader.
If say on Round 1 you are desperate for the pot, but you know somebody else wants it, you have to try to judge how much you'll need to bid to get the pot - but not too high, else you'll end up with no money. I.e. if you bid $50 (extremely stupid), then you'd definitely win - but the other players would only need to contribute $50 (the game amount) minus your bid .. $50 = $0! More common are small bids of perhaps a dollar or two, so in a game with ten players for instance, if $2 is the winning bid, then 9 players must give $48 to the winner, who also keeps their own $50. So the winner receives $432 from others & keeps their $50, thus walks away with $482.
This is where my understanding gets hazy, to my knowledge, any winners then must pay $50 for subsequent rounds - so they'd end up paying out $450 over the next nine months. In this example, they're paying a $18 fee over the course of the Tong Tin, but get access to their funding much quicker. The benefit for the person going last is that they are lending out something like $48 each month, but then at the end receive $50 from everyone else. Everyone else falls between those two evils.
Of course, if you want the pot and can get away with it with a very low bid then your loss is much reduced - in a way, the 'winner' is getting a say in what fee they're willing to pay to get the pot.
If you read that & are still confused, join the club - I'll find that worked example!
Meum est propositum in taberna mori,
ut sint Guinness proxima morientis ori.
tunc cantabunt letius angelorum chori:
"Sit Deus propitius huic potatori."
ut sint Guinness proxima morientis ori.
tunc cantabunt letius angelorum chori:
"Sit Deus propitius huic potatori."
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Surely every month they pay $50 MINUS the bid amount, so if one month the winning bid is $5, they fork out $45. I'd have thought that over the full cycle then, rather than paying $18 over what they collected, they'd actually be in credit.Spigzy wrote: This is where my understanding gets hazy, to my knowledge, any winners then must pay $50 for subsequent rounds - so they'd end up paying out $450 over the next nine months. In this example, they're paying a $18 fee over the course of the Tong Tin, but get access to their funding much quicker.
But I'm not clear either; my missus won't let me join a ton tin circle and insists the money's safer in a bank (feel free to inquire who's the westerner in this relationship!)
I came, I argued, I'm out
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I'd love to see that worked example. My missus has tried to explain it to me a couple of times but never gets beyond what happens on the first round. Sounds like a scam to me.Spigzy wrote: If you read that & are still confused, join the club - I'll find that worked example!
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and ...
- Lucky Lucan
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Tell me about it, I lost $2 grand on one of those fucking schemes. They work sometimes, but not when the person running the thing spunks all the money on cards and legs it.keeping_it_riel wrote:There's a frightening amount of cheating that goes with this tong-ting thing. Years ago, a girl I was dating stupidly (and i told her not to) got involved with a tong ting ring run by the (then) wife of a K440 member and was done over to the tune of $800, which was her entire savings.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
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walkjivefly wrote:I'd love to see that worked example. My missus has tried to explain it to me a couple of times but never gets beyond what happens on the first round. Sounds like a scam to me.Spigzy wrote: If you read that & are still confused, join the club - I'll find that worked example!
Thanks Spigzy, that's how I understand it, but I don't really get the subsequent rounds.
And, if you were to not bid for the pot at all, and collect in the final round as you're the only one to not have bid yet, is it much of an 'investment'? I mean, say $50 per month for 10 months by 10 people... You've put in a little less than $50 for 8 months, ( as it's $50 minus the winning bid?) and in the final month you collect $450, which barely covers what you've put in over the course of the tong tin.
It's twisting my melon, because:
If you are well off enough not to need to bid for the pot, it seems you really don't benefit.
If you need it and are outbid, you just keep paying in instead and it seems you don't benefit.
The only way people can get bumped is if the trustworthy 'keeper of the kitty', accredited by the village chief, turns out to be not so trustworthy. What if you'd already bid and won on the first round, then someone did a bunk with the kitty? (Wait, there's no kitty, as you won it in the previous month. What!?)
What if people can't cough up the cash on time? Do they bid high to win the pot to make the next month's payment?
I must be misunderstanding this! But as I stretch my mind around it, time slows in my apartment to a glacial drip, and outside empires rise and fall. Huge winged crabs hold dominion over a post apocoliptic wilderness... but inside I wrestle with this: can the average villager have a better grasp of this than I?
- Felgerkarb
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Lucky Lucan wrote:Tell me about it, I lost $2 grand on one of those fucking schemes. They work sometimes, but not when the person running the thing spunks all the money on cards and legs it.keeping_it_riel wrote:There's a frightening amount of cheating that goes with this tong-ting thing. Years ago, a girl I was dating stupidly (and i told her not to) got involved with a tong ting ring run by the (then) wife of a K440 member and was done over to the tune of $800, which was her entire savings.
That bitch had the gall to hit me up AFTER her theft for money Squeeky supposedly owed her while playing...and I had been broken up with Squeeky for a YEAR. She thought I didn't know she stole the pot. When I laughed in her face, she was...annoyed...with me a bit.
Every tong ting group I have had friends playing in has ended because of theft of the pot by the leader.
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Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
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Tong tin is not a pyramid scheme. It is a way people pool money together so that they can use it for a business purpose. But you don't just play it with anyone invites you in, it is played only among your trusted group of people and good rating people. This is how most middle class to rich families got their capitals to start businesses. That is the purpose of tong tin. But it can be used to collect money and then run...the_purple_turtle wrote:That sounds horrible. I'm still struggling to understand how the 'game' works, even after having many khmer friends explain it, and reading Spigzy's post above.keeping_it_riel wrote:There's a frightening amount of cheating that goes with this tong-ting thing. Years ago, a girl I was dating stupidly (and i told her not to) got involved with a tong ting ring run by the (then) wife of a K440 member and was done over to the tune of $800, which was her entire savings.
the chosen land.
A proper Tong Tin should be registered with the commune chief and all 'players' must thumb print & sign their personal details. If it isn't registered & you don't know the other players on a very personal level, don't get involved.
Here's an example of a very small $50 Tong Tin based on my knowledge thus far. Note that $50 seems to be the lowest figure that anyone is interested in - there are much, much bigger ones.
One of the rules I need to clear up is what happens when two or more players bid the same amount. I think the Tong Tin controller asks them to resubmit - I suspect it happens more towards the end of the game where nobody wants the pot, in which case the bid is so small it doesn't really affect remaining players income too much.
Definitely seems to be a case of the rich robbing the poor - but equally it does give a decent amount of money, no hassle, for an emergency for a poor person who then needs to scrape the $50 each month thereafter.
What I'm also missing is where the Tong Tin leader has the opportunity to steal the pot - the Tong Tin's I have observed involved all players attending in person & all money handled right there & then. I'm thinking the best chance is when the players who have won a round don't need to attend the bidding, so they just drop off the $50 whenever it suits them. If the leader runs with the pot on the 9th or 10th round in the above example, it would defraud the penultimate/ultimate winner of a fair amount.
Happy to rework the example as others spot faults in my logic/rules as far as they know them.
Here's an example of a very small $50 Tong Tin based on my knowledge thus far. Note that $50 seems to be the lowest figure that anyone is interested in - there are much, much bigger ones.
One of the rules I need to clear up is what happens when two or more players bid the same amount. I think the Tong Tin controller asks them to resubmit - I suspect it happens more towards the end of the game where nobody wants the pot, in which case the bid is so small it doesn't really affect remaining players income too much.
Definitely seems to be a case of the rich robbing the poor - but equally it does give a decent amount of money, no hassle, for an emergency for a poor person who then needs to scrape the $50 each month thereafter.
What I'm also missing is where the Tong Tin leader has the opportunity to steal the pot - the Tong Tin's I have observed involved all players attending in person & all money handled right there & then. I'm thinking the best chance is when the players who have won a round don't need to attend the bidding, so they just drop off the $50 whenever it suits them. If the leader runs with the pot on the 9th or 10th round in the above example, it would defraud the penultimate/ultimate winner of a fair amount.
Happy to rework the example as others spot faults in my logic/rules as far as they know them.
Meum est propositum in taberna mori,
ut sint Guinness proxima morientis ori.
tunc cantabunt letius angelorum chori:
"Sit Deus propitius huic potatori."
ut sint Guinness proxima morientis ori.
tunc cantabunt letius angelorum chori:
"Sit Deus propitius huic potatori."
- vladimir
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That.Felgerkarb wrote:Every tong ting group I have had friends playing in has ended because of theft of the pot by the leader.
The fact that it's even being debated on here explains why so many suckers get involved.
Guys, wanna join vladimir's tongtin?
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
Based on what I have read here using a $50 base and 10 players bidding the following amounts 15, 12, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3. 2, 1, 0
Assumption - No Botany Bays - is this the crack ??
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Net
1 -315 38 42 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 94
2 15 -342 42 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 44
3 15 38 -378 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 4
4 15 38 42 -396 45 46 47 48 49 50 -16
5 15 38 42 44 -405 46 47 48 49 50 -26
6 15 38 42 44 45 -414 47 48 49 50 -36
7 15 38 42 44 45 46 -423 48 49 50 -46
8 15 38 42 44 45 46 47 -432 49 50 -56
9 15 38 42 44 45 46 47 48 -441 50 -66
10 15 38 42 44 45 46 47 48 49 -450 -76
So player 1 gets $315 in the first month but it costs him $94 over the term
Whilst Player 10 gets $450 for $374 over the period but has to wait until month 10.
Might try and set one up down the boozer great interest rate if you are out last
Assumption - No Botany Bays - is this the crack ??
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Net
1 -315 38 42 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 94
2 15 -342 42 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 44
3 15 38 -378 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 4
4 15 38 42 -396 45 46 47 48 49 50 -16
5 15 38 42 44 -405 46 47 48 49 50 -26
6 15 38 42 44 45 -414 47 48 49 50 -36
7 15 38 42 44 45 46 -423 48 49 50 -46
8 15 38 42 44 45 46 47 -432 49 50 -56
9 15 38 42 44 45 46 47 48 -441 50 -66
10 15 38 42 44 45 46 47 48 49 -450 -76
So player 1 gets $315 in the first month but it costs him $94 over the term
Whilst Player 10 gets $450 for $374 over the period but has to wait until month 10.
Might try and set one up down the boozer great interest rate if you are out last
Last edited by 104 on Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
More or less Interesting aspects about Tong Tin in the comments here. But that was not the whole article . I think it really is a spot-on, lucid and down-to-earth insight into the way Khmer society functions . Thanks for that, Pedro.
- Lucky Lucan
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Yeah, there's no way any locals could actually make an honest buck or anything, you've got it sussed.steivan wrote: I think it really is a spot-on, lucid and down-to-earth insight into the way Khmer society functions.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
Sorry Lucky , you got me wrong here. I like the Khmer, I admire their resilience, I like it here, I accept and and respect different modes of societal attitudes. I have lived her long enough to consider Cambodia as my first home now. But I still think that Pedro's article is spot-on.
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