Sam Rainsy meets with Burma’s Aung San SuuKyi
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The Rainman must be SOOOO jealous - this is VERY disturbing ....
http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?o ... rce=buffer
So, ASS, are you going to make a stand, or are you too busy shopping for black shirts?
http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?o ... rce=buffer
So, ASS, are you going to make a stand, or are you too busy shopping for black shirts?
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Thanks for sharing, andy.
It's interesting that in many cases, as soon as dictators start to cede a little power, or they get removed, religious tensions surface bigtime.
It's interesting that in many cases, as soon as dictators start to cede a little power, or they get removed, religious tensions surface bigtime.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
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Sure - Tito, Saddam ... just shows what a sterling job they were doing by keeping the 'freedom and democracy' crap at bay. Will the West ever learn?vladimir wrote:Thanks for sharing, andy.
It's interesting that in many cases, as soon as dictators start to cede a little power, or they get removed, religious tensions surface bigtime.
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Nice link Andy.
My visit to Myanmar left me with the thought of what would happen between the different groups if the junta was to go.
My visit to Myanmar left me with the thought of what would happen between the different groups if the junta was to go.
Dictated to a slave and sent by carrier pigeon.
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Quite so. The implication behind my post is raising the issue as to whether a post-junta 'democratic' government led by ASS is going to perpetuate this ugly fascistic persecution. Furthermore, how is this going to sit with the West, particularly in the US? After a long hard struggle, riddled with the most horrendous mistakes, Al Qaeda-led Islamic militancy is finally on the wane (I credit that primarily to AQ being their own worst enemies by the way, not to America, but that's another argument). The West really doesn't need to be perceived by the moderate Muslim world as acquiescing to another Muslim pogrom.
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Yeah Andy, you are pretty wrong on most counts there. Especially questionable is your idea that Islamic militancy is on the wane and that there actually is an Al Qaeda that is anything more than an invention of the American TWOT (The War On Terror).
Aung San Suu Kyi is as close to Gandhi's ideals as is possible to be. She has not ever supported violence, nor will she ever likely waiver from that approach.
Aung San Suu Kyi is as close to Gandhi's ideals as is possible to be. She has not ever supported violence, nor will she ever likely waiver from that approach.
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Whilst the Bush-Cheney axis took maximum advantage from the opportunity offered by AQ, it's going too far to suggest they're a US invention; nevertheless, that's a whole different topic so let's focus on the thread title.
I'm not bitter re. ASS, and I'm certainly not suggesting she's promoting or advocating the violence. However, since comparison with Gandhi has been raised, let's go with that: Gandhi very actively promoted his passive resistance - if his supporters on either side began using violence he'd intervene and/or go on hunger strike to shame them. Is ASS doing this? Is she ACTIVELY stepping in to stop Buddhists attacking Muslims? Is she even strongly condemning violence in her speeches to her Buddhist electorate? I see no signs of this. Are you trying to say she is, and that the junta are manipulating the media to hide this? I don't believe that. No, it's her very NON-Gandhian passivity in the face of this escalating pogrom that I find so disappointing and out of keeping with the extent of international adoration she's accorded.
I'm not bitter re. ASS, and I'm certainly not suggesting she's promoting or advocating the violence. However, since comparison with Gandhi has been raised, let's go with that: Gandhi very actively promoted his passive resistance - if his supporters on either side began using violence he'd intervene and/or go on hunger strike to shame them. Is ASS doing this? Is she ACTIVELY stepping in to stop Buddhists attacking Muslims? Is she even strongly condemning violence in her speeches to her Buddhist electorate? I see no signs of this. Are you trying to say she is, and that the junta are manipulating the media to hide this? I don't believe that. No, it's her very NON-Gandhian passivity in the face of this escalating pogrom that I find so disappointing and out of keeping with the extent of international adoration she's accorded.
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Tin foil hats aside... you're giving that administration to much credit. They're not nearly clever enough to pull that off. And AQ tracks back to the 80's... though perhaps you believe some handy explanation suggesting TWOT was a actually a long term plan from the Regan administration? They're definitely not THAT clever.Falcon Randwick wrote:Especially questionable is your idea that Islamic militancy is on the wane and that there actually is an Al Qaeda that is anything more than an invention of the American TWOT (The War On Terror).
Ockham's razor comes into play here... religious zealots explanation vs 20+ year conspiracy explanation.
And I don't think he claimed Islamic militancy is on the wane... only AQ Islamic militancy. They're one group... and with the loss of key leaders combined with the "Arab Spring" revolutions in Tunisia and Egypt which it had no hand in (meaning no real claim on credit/power. you can spot the difference because the revolution was mostly peaceful and no one exploded) they're losing influence in the middle east. That's not to say other Muslim militant groups won't replace them... there's a strong desire in factions of the Muslim community for such things, and someone will always step in to fill those power roles as long as the demand for them exists. But, with some hope and more pressure on the moderate Muslim community to be more proactive on spreading moderate views to their families/friends/etc perhaps that demand will eventually decrease as well.
Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.
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Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
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Not bitter? Then stop using such an asinine acronym.andyinasia wrote:I'm not bitter re. ASS... Is ASS doing this?
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Fucking Americans. Why can you never admit that your government creates and maintains widespread networks of terrorists, including the so-called Al Qaeda. It's not a conspiracy, but a well established fact.OrangeDragon wrote:Tin foil hats aside... you're giving that administration to much credit. They're not nearly clever enough to pull that off. And AQ tracks back to the 80's... though perhaps you believe some handy explanation suggesting TWOT was a actually a long term plan from the Regan administration? They're definitely not THAT clever.Falcon Randwick wrote:Especially questionable is your idea that Islamic militancy is on the wane and that there actually is an Al Qaeda that is anything more than an invention of the American TWOT (The War On Terror).
http://rense.com/general61/myths.htm
http://dprogram.net/2008/12/25/former-b ... -campaign/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/al-qaeda-t ... se-2/24738
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_%E2%80 ... ontroversy
http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... le1245.htm
Just because the US cannot control the end results of their malevolent foreign policy, doesn't mean they didn't initiate things to begin with.
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While they supported them... and specifically they supported their predecessors simply as a group of muslims fighting against soviet marxist control, which they were then born from later... they didn't "create" them. If anything the saudi gov't is what turned AQ so rabid... with their involvement in the affairs of isreal/palestine they pissed bin laden off to the point they had to banish him fro his outspoken views on the subject, thus cornering him and making him vengeful.Falcon Randwick wrote:Fucking Americans. Why can you never admit that your government creates and maintains widespread networks of terrorists, including the so-called Al Qaeda. It's not a conspiracy, but a well established fact.OrangeDragon wrote:Tin foil hats aside... you're giving that administration to much credit. They're not nearly clever enough to pull that off. And AQ tracks back to the 80's... though perhaps you believe some handy explanation suggesting TWOT was a actually a long term plan from the Regan administration? They're definitely not THAT clever.Falcon Randwick wrote:Especially questionable is your idea that Islamic militancy is on the wane and that there actually is an Al Qaeda that is anything more than an invention of the American TWOT (The War On Terror).
http://rense.com/general61/myths.htm
http://dprogram.net/2008/12/25/former-b ... -campaign/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/al-qaeda-t ... se-2/24738
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_%E2%80 ... ontroversy
http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... le1245.htm
Just because the US cannot control the end results of their malevolent foreign policy, doesn't mean they didn't initiate things to begin with.
Trying to lay blame at the US's feet over it though is like saying it's America's fault the USSR ever formed, as they didn't just let Germany wipe out the Russians in the world war.
Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.
Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
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I read somewhere that it was the US bases in Saudi Arabia that set Bin Laden off rather than any meddling in Israeli/Palestinian affairs.OrangeDragon wrote:While they supported them... and specifically they supported their predecessors simply as a group of muslims fighting against soviet marxist control, which they were then born from later... they didn't "create" them. If anything the saudi gov't is what turned AQ so rabid... with their involvement in the affairs of isreal/palestine they pissed bin laden off to the point they had to banish him fro his outspoken views on the subject, thus cornering him and making him vengeful.
That's a spurious analogy as the Bolsheviks were already in power before the end of WWI. The Americans and British did attempt to oust the Soviets in league with the White Russians, but failed there, too.OrangeDragon wrote: Trying to lay blame at the US's feet over it though is like saying it's America's fault the USSR ever formed, as they didn't just let Germany wipe out the Russians in the world war.
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Yes that's true, but follow OD's chronology: While the US was arming the mujahaddin to fight the Russkies, OBL didn't moan about their presence in Arabia. What happened was that after the Russkies pulled out, the CIA asked the mujahaddin to return the weaponry the Yank's had 'lent' them. Naturally the mujahaddin told the Yanks where to go, kept the arms and turned them on each other. One of the minor foreign fighters was OBL - he returned to Saudi and began developing his wacky ideas, then got turfed out by the Saudis and set up shop in Sudan from where he started his anti-US terrorist actions - bombing the embassy in Kenya, USS Cole. Clinton hit him so he decamped to the chaos of Afghanistan where his money was instrumental in helping Mullah Omar's Taliban rise to the top. So, his 'ideology' evolved, and even though the American presence in Saudi was a major component of it, in no way can you claim that they 'created' Al Qaeda ideology.Falcon Randwick wrote: I read somewhere that it was the US bases in Saudi Arabia that set Bin Laden off rather than any meddling in Israeli/Palestinian affairs.
Since we've gone off topic and down this road anyway, I'll continue by explaining my initial comment about AQ. The aim was to unite the Sunni world to form a pan-Sunni empire, by bringing down the Great Satan of the West AND the Shi'ites (primarily based in Iran and Iraq, a critical point completely missed by the idiots in the Bush administration). Whilst there was initial enthusiasm in the wake of 9/11, the invasions of Afghanistan and especially Iraq, over the years the vast majority of Sunni Muslims in nations where AQ was active came to see them for what they are - insane psychopaths. AQ completely lost the hearts and minds of the people they expected support from. This was nothing to do with America's WOT. As OD states, whatever comes out of the aborted 'Arab Spring', one thing is apparent - none of the Sunni Muslims in those countries, even the mess that is Libya and Egypt - wanted to have anything to do with AQ. They've been smashed by the French in Mali; there are very few places where Muslims will tolerate them - really only pockets of remote and uneducated tribal peoples with grudges - i.e. Afghanistan and the borderlands in Pakistan.
Therefore, what WOULD be a valid argument that you could put forward FR, is not that America created Al Qaeda, but that any credit they might claim for defeating Al Qaeda is bullshit. Okay, they latterly took out OBL and terminated a quite a few leaders, but in the end AQ would have faded away without this costly (in terms of finances and human rights and freedoms) "War on Terror". The WOT achieved nothing; indeed has been highly counter-productive for citizens in the West and for American influence in the world. The WOT was a cynical - possibly even 'evil' ploy by Bush and Cheney (chuck in Rumsfeld and the UK's Blair), all of whom should be indicted for war crimes. That, I think is a powerful enough argument without resorting to wacky conspiracy theories.
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I don't think I did resort to any "wacky conspiracy theories" and stand by my point that the US certainly does sponsor terrorism.
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