Orichá wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:30 am
v12 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:08 pm
Orichá wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:03 am
I will politely disagree... I think that the Communist Revolution greatly helped to rein in a lot of the negative and unruly qualities that were debilitating Chinese society, and that were responsible for so much chaos, corruption and suffering. I think the Revolution was necessary and sincere, as it was the only way China could liberate herself from its own bad apples and the West.
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Disagree is fine with me.
Your error is, assuming that a communist revolution was the best option. Looking at how the society developed from the autocracy into a repressive regime (where the regime just in one day to the other wipes out the amusement for a large part of the humans) along a path where some 50M people died due to starvation, I don't think, that could be considered as a success. Not even the end-result.
No, V12.
You simply don't understand how history works. There are no "options" for a nation to choose... Especially, in the case of China at that particular time, the Revolution was the ONLY POSSIBLE outcome available... That means simply: the Revolution was irresistible. If you can't understand this kind of inevitable development, you don't understand the processes of history.
The various failings of the Revolution were many and yet over the long-term, its successes greatly outweigh failings. Of course, one can argue that China's successes have only sprung to fruition during the past thirty years of more or less capitalist enterprise. But that is not the core issue here...
Or, I do have a better understanding of history than you think.
Of course, "there are no choices". Things do go as they develop, there is no all mighty influencing what is happening.
Though, what is happening, is that people do THINK, that a communist goal is the best way to go. However, history shows on that, that each and every "choice" for communism ends up in effective misery for nearly the whole population.
And that "choice" for the communist way, is due to a large amount of people having a lack of understanding of communism and its intricacies, when implemented.
Let me give another example. Iran by the end of the 70-ties. The end of the Shah reigning was due to students "taking the lead" in that, at a large scale. Students being fed the lies from their religious masters, that beyond the Shah, there would be a paradise of freedom. Note, the moment, the relies got in power, they did create a regime far more brutal and restrictive than ever with the Shah in charge. Just because the relies fed the lies and the students did believe them. Nowadays (and even shorty after the 1979 revolution), the students highly regret(ted) their actions, but hey, now there is a brutal regime in power, which will not give away it's power, not to say will use everything in its power to suppress the population (including the use of a pretty naive religion).
You see a similarity with Trumpies operations ? What do you think, would have happened with "freedom" in the US, when the trumpie coup would have worked out (IE, part of the Congress assassinated, Pence hanged on his gallows (already erected in front of the Capitol !), Pelosi killed, martial law called, because there was only one "elected" Superman available, and the 2020 declared void ? I leave the ideas for your own imagination, expect the reality to be far worse.
So, back to China: It became a "Communist" revolution, because the Communist concept sounded so good for the majority in the country. And that is, because the majority has zero understanding what Communism effectively is. Look at the suppressions in both Russia and China. Not to mention, what is happening now in Kazakhstan, where Putin immediately shows up when a huge direct reaction force, just to avoid, another "successful" communist country becomes complete anarchy (and infecting Russia itself).
And, people do THINK, that communism is ideal, because there are so many idiots on this planet proclaiming Communism to be "the best there is". Yeah, the same obvious brainless types, as the Trumpie followers, are present all over the world. Self-thinking is a difficult item for most people.