Boeing
Boeing
BoeingThis must be a historic case of a Company that is too big to fail not learning from it's past. After the world learned what kind of a patched up plane(373 max 8) that was originally designed in the 1960s and than modified and stretched "over the reasonable limits" resulting in two crashes with more than 3xx people dead it was banned from starting until recently. Taking a closer look at Boeing is worth the while. There doesn't seem to be much left of the top engineering Co. that Boeing used to be for decades after Boeing moved from Seattle to Chicago where it became a "shareholder value", stock exchange addicted THING. Many other planes are problematic, like the 787 Dreamliner,the 777 which seems to get stuck in a developers hole, the Airforce K20 Tankers riddled with quality problems and now again the entire series of 737's. One reason NOT to Fly any Boeing aircraft !!
Latest news:
The FAA said planes may have a failed electronic flow control of the air conditioning packs that vent air into the cargo hold from other areas of the plane. The directive prohibits operators from transporting cargo in the cargo hold if airplanes are operating with this condition unless they can verify items are nonflammable and noncombustible.
The FAA said the directive covers all Boeing 737 8, 737 9, and 737 8200 MAX airplanes and some 737-800 and 737-900ER series airplanes.
The airworthiness directive impacts 663 airplanes registered in the United States and approximately 2,204 worldwide.
Source:https://finance.yahoo.com/news/faa-issu ... 14138.html
How about Chapter 11 and reset ?
Latest news:
The FAA said planes may have a failed electronic flow control of the air conditioning packs that vent air into the cargo hold from other areas of the plane. The directive prohibits operators from transporting cargo in the cargo hold if airplanes are operating with this condition unless they can verify items are nonflammable and noncombustible.
The FAA said the directive covers all Boeing 737 8, 737 9, and 737 8200 MAX airplanes and some 737-800 and 737-900ER series airplanes.
The airworthiness directive impacts 663 airplanes registered in the United States and approximately 2,204 worldwide.
Source:https://finance.yahoo.com/news/faa-issu ... 14138.html
How about Chapter 11 and reset ?
Won't make a difference.
The core problem is the focus on short-term share-holder's value, IE attracting creepy managers. What effectively happened after the "take-over" of MD, where the MD management and MD culture squeezed out the engineering culture that made Boeing great. So make Boeing great again, is not going to happen.
- spitthedog
- Is the World Outside still there ?
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Kicks the tyres whilst scratching chin.
Good to go?
Yeah, should be orlright.
Surely the airline industry as a whole plays a part?
For example, the cost cutting and drive to design and build planes that are built from ever lighter materials to reduce on fuel costs, etc, etc.
Good to go?
Yeah, should be orlright.
Surely the airline industry as a whole plays a part?
For example, the cost cutting and drive to design and build planes that are built from ever lighter materials to reduce on fuel costs, etc, etc.
"I don't care what the people are thinking, i ain't drunk i'm just drinking"
That's not how it works in the airline business. Even the smallest bold does have a certificate.spitthedog wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:41 pmKicks the tyres whilst scratching chin.
Good to go?
Yeah, should be orlright.
These tech items to make airplanes cheaper, aren't the problem. It's the cutting corners on regulations and intentionally misleading the regulatory authorities on that. Boeing has become very good at that, abusing their original reputation.spitthedog wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:41 pm.....
For example, the cost cutting and drive to design and build planes that are built from ever lighter materials to reduce on fuel costs, etc, etc.
Believe it or not. When you think Boeing products couldn't get any worse be in for a surprise.
It's clear that Ryanair doesn't care much about the safety of it's passengers. Cheap,cheap and even cheaper it must be. The 737max 8, the plane of which two crashed leaving hundreds dead was already "stretched beyond it's limits". Now the 737 max10 is even longer, or more stretched than the 737max8. Quote:The 737 MAX 10 is the stretch, or longest version, of the MAX. It isn’t in the air flying commercially yet. The MAX 10 is about 144 feet
long—about 30 feet longer than the shortest version of the MAX. The extra length means more passengers. A MAX 10 can seat up to 230 people.
Boeing has certainly lost the plot and consumers should shun the product and kick Ryanair in the Bucket.
source:https://www.barrons.com/articles/boeing ... eid=yhoof2
It's clear that Ryanair doesn't care much about the safety of it's passengers. Cheap,cheap and even cheaper it must be. The 737max 8, the plane of which two crashed leaving hundreds dead was already "stretched beyond it's limits". Now the 737 max10 is even longer, or more stretched than the 737max8. Quote:The 737 MAX 10 is the stretch, or longest version, of the MAX. It isn’t in the air flying commercially yet. The MAX 10 is about 144 feet
long—about 30 feet longer than the shortest version of the MAX. The extra length means more passengers. A MAX 10 can seat up to 230 people.
Boeing has certainly lost the plot and consumers should shun the product and kick Ryanair in the Bucket.
source:https://www.barrons.com/articles/boeing ... eid=yhoof2
- Lucky Lucan
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Much as I dislike Ryanair they have only ever had one serious incident (in 2008 with a 737-800) - it was caused by multiple bird strikes and only resulted in minor injuries.Expatissimo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:28 pmBelieve it or not. When you think Boeing products couldn't get any worse be in for a surprise.
It's clear that Ryanair doesn't care much about the safety of it's passengers. Cheap,cheap and even cheaper it must be. The 737max 8, the plane of which two crashed leaving hundreds dead was already "stretched beyond it's limits".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanair_Flight_4102
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
"You think training & prevention is expensive ? Check out what an accident costs".Lucky Lucan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:26 amMuch as I dislike Ryanair they have only ever had one serious incident (in 2008 with a 737-800) - it was caused by multiple bird strikes and only resulted in minor injuries.Expatissimo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:28 pmBelieve it or not. When you think Boeing products couldn't get any worse be in for a surprise.
It's clear that Ryanair doesn't care much about the safety of it's passengers. Cheap,cheap and even cheaper it must be. The 737max 8, the plane of which two crashed leaving hundreds dead was already "stretched beyond it's limits".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanair_Flight_4102
Indeed, whatever you think about Ryanair, safety is not the issue. Being at the edge of what is allowed, though, is. Pilots being seriously tired (before Covid-19), spare fuel to the minimum, it's all Ryanair, though still in line with the regulations and legal.
Keep kicking tyres.Expatissimo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:28 pmBelieve it or not. When you think Boeing products couldn't get any worse be in for a surprise.
It's clear that Ryanair doesn't care much about the safety of it's passengers. Cheap,cheap and even cheaper it must be. The 737max 8, the plane of which two crashed leaving hundreds dead was already "stretched beyond it's limits". Now the 737 max10 is even longer, or more stretched than the 737max8. Quote:The 737 MAX 10 is the stretch, or longest version, of the MAX. It isn’t in the air flying commercially yet. The MAX 10 is about 144 feet
long—about 30 feet longer than the shortest version of the MAX. The extra length means more passengers. A MAX 10 can seat up to 230 people.
Boeing has certainly lost the plot and consumers should shun the product and kick Ryanair in the Bucket.
source:https://www.barrons.com/articles/boeing ... eid=yhoof2
The "stretching" of the Max is not an issue, the MAX 10 does have additional emergency exits and does as such comply with the regulations.
HOWEVER, there are serious issues with the B737 (though still legal and certified), all resulting from the inheritance of the airframe originally some 50-60 years ago from the Jurassic 737 and even the earlier B707.
The fuselage construction is outright weak, which shows up, with nearly every B737 crash. The fuselage breaks in 3 parts and as such the protecting cover for its passenger is heavily compromised, effectively gone. Note, it's legal, because those inheritances are allowed, though far from wise to do (saving money, as Boeing found out, is not always the best thing to do).
Also, important for pilots, the B737 cockpit inside overhead panel does have a tendency to crash down on the pilots on a crash landing and severely injuring or killing the pilots.
A Hudson bay landing with an airbus, saving all passengers, is quite likely not something a B737 would be able to do, not the Jurassic B737 and neither the MAX 10.
Another issue with the B737 is the inheritance of its cockpit design and systems. Little redundancy, nothing modern on that, implying the pilot does have to grab for his/her tablet or even paper manual, when something goes wrong and the bible is needed (roughly always, since it's all procedural, etc.). The pilot is "in control" until in error and things go haywire.
An Airbus nicely shows the suggestions/handling, based on the reported error, on a built-in display, including the guiding to follow the actions/steps.
Boeing faced more Quality related stops of production with it's controversial K46 Tanker for the Airforce.
While issues on commercial aircraft on the 787 Dreamliner and 777 have dragged on so have the problems involving military aircraft.
Deliveries of Boeing Co.’s KC-46 tanker were quietly halted for around a month earlier this year after another incident involving debris left behind on the aircraft.
Deliveries of the the tanker have been halted multiple times due to left-behind debris since the manufacturer began passing the aircraft off to the Air Force in early 2019.
Persistent debris issues notwithstanding, the tanker is still years away from being fully operational.
The Air Force is having to redesign the boom, which is too stiff for some aircraft, while Boeing is fixing the remote vision system used for refueling.
The company has incurred more than $5 billion in cost overruns on the tanker amid a number of technical issues and delays during and after its development.
Boeing has made other debris-related news in recent days, as it was reported last week that empty mini tequila bottles were found on a 747 in San Antonio that is being retrofitted to serve as Air Force One.
While issues on commercial aircraft on the 787 Dreamliner and 777 have dragged on so have the problems involving military aircraft.
Deliveries of Boeing Co.’s KC-46 tanker were quietly halted for around a month earlier this year after another incident involving debris left behind on the aircraft.
Deliveries of the the tanker have been halted multiple times due to left-behind debris since the manufacturer began passing the aircraft off to the Air Force in early 2019.
Persistent debris issues notwithstanding, the tanker is still years away from being fully operational.
The Air Force is having to redesign the boom, which is too stiff for some aircraft, while Boeing is fixing the remote vision system used for refueling.
The company has incurred more than $5 billion in cost overruns on the tanker amid a number of technical issues and delays during and after its development.
Boeing has made other debris-related news in recent days, as it was reported last week that empty mini tequila bottles were found on a 747 in San Antonio that is being retrofitted to serve as Air Force One.
The Sun (UK newspaper) headline prediction … “Boeing, Boeing, gone!”
(Damn, a quick Google shows this has been quite popular, many, many times! )
(Damn, a quick Google shows this has been quite popular, many, many times! )
Meum est propositum in taberna mori,
ut sint Guinness proxima morientis ori.
tunc cantabunt letius angelorum chori:
"Sit Deus propitius huic potatori."
ut sint Guinness proxima morientis ori.
tunc cantabunt letius angelorum chori:
"Sit Deus propitius huic potatori."
As a former frequent flyer, I was more comfortable in the back next to the lavatory of a 787 than in anything I have ever tried in decades of airplane travel. So I went for premium economy once, and it's the smoothest ride ever, aside from a sudden headache halfway through. Maybe it was the free kicks before takeoff. But I hope they will solve their problem, regarding the correct manual implementation in third world countries.
Ex-Boeing 737 MAX chief technical pilot indicted for fraud
WASHINGTON, Oct 14 (Reuters) - A former chief technical pilot for Boeing Co (BA.N) was charged with fraud on Thursday for deceiving federal regulators evaluating the company's 737 MAX jet, hindering the ability to protect airline passengers and leaving "pilots in the lurch," the U.S. Justice Department said.
Mark Forkner, 49, was indicted by a grand jury in Texas on six counts of scheming to defraud Boeing's U.S.-based airline customers to obtain tens of millions of dollars for Boeing, the government said.
more:https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-10-14/
That's what happens when you move a Engineering Company with a superb trackrecord to become a "Shareholder Value" Mafia type that's only after the greedback with george washington's head on it.
The former Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg getting a $39 million golden parachute after two deadly plane crashes seems unjustified compared to the Mark Forkner indictment. Perhaps Muilenburg should be in jail instead. The golden parachute video clip:
WASHINGTON, Oct 14 (Reuters) - A former chief technical pilot for Boeing Co (BA.N) was charged with fraud on Thursday for deceiving federal regulators evaluating the company's 737 MAX jet, hindering the ability to protect airline passengers and leaving "pilots in the lurch," the U.S. Justice Department said.
Mark Forkner, 49, was indicted by a grand jury in Texas on six counts of scheming to defraud Boeing's U.S.-based airline customers to obtain tens of millions of dollars for Boeing, the government said.
more:https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-10-14/
That's what happens when you move a Engineering Company with a superb trackrecord to become a "Shareholder Value" Mafia type that's only after the greedback with george washington's head on it.
The former Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg getting a $39 million golden parachute after two deadly plane crashes seems unjustified compared to the Mark Forkner indictment. Perhaps Muilenburg should be in jail instead. The golden parachute video clip:
Boeing finds new defect in continuing struggle to produce Dreamliner 787
The never ending mess at Boeing. Who on this planet would ever want to fly such trash cans ?
WASHINGTON, Oct 14 (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N) said on Thursday that some titanium 787 Dreamliner parts were improperly manufactured over the past three years, the latest in a series of problems to plague the wide-body aircraft.
more: https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-10-14/
The never ending mess at Boeing. Who on this planet would ever want to fly such trash cans ?
WASHINGTON, Oct 14 (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N) said on Thursday that some titanium 787 Dreamliner parts were improperly manufactured over the past three years, the latest in a series of problems to plague the wide-body aircraft.
more: https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-10-14/
- spitthedog
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As a United Airlines plane looses an external panel in flight, you gotta wonder whether capitalism can run into trouble as far as airline manufacturing go's.
The major recent problems with new planes were triggered by Airbus gaining market share, and cost cutting, with the drive to get the product out as quick as possible.
Would things had been different if the company was state owned?
I'm not knocking capitalism, but when people's lives are at stake, could things have been different if market share was less of an issue?
The major recent problems with new planes were triggered by Airbus gaining market share, and cost cutting, with the drive to get the product out as quick as possible.
Would things had been different if the company was state owned?
I'm not knocking capitalism, but when people's lives are at stake, could things have been different if market share was less of an issue?
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"I don't care what the people are thinking, i ain't drunk i'm just drinking"
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