Siem Reap: Ankor Wat Apsara Authority
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Siem Reap: Ankor Wat Apsara Authority
Really nice house on offer at the right price, but...
1. It's within the Ankor Wat Apsara Authority region and I am told it has transfer restrictions and would therefore be a high-risk buy (among others of course). Anyone knows more on this issue?
2. Joint ownership between Khmer and Barang possible (I think I read here to the contrary)?
1. It's within the Ankor Wat Apsara Authority region and I am told it has transfer restrictions and would therefore be a high-risk buy (among others of course). Anyone knows more on this issue?
2. Joint ownership between Khmer and Barang possible (I think I read here to the contrary)?
I wouldn't touch it.
Sooner or later the people are going to have to go.
Sooner or later the people are going to have to go.
Agree. A Cambodian of the right caliber wouldn't worry, but as a foreigner I would stay well away from that.
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It depends on what Zone the property falls in.
If it's Zone 1 or 2 then it's state public property, not private land. In practise there is a de facto system of private land "ownership" and transfer, but it has no solid foundation in law, and is supposed to just allow the transfer of land rights (but not soft/hard legal title) between family members or neighbours. Of course, people routinely get away with "selling" property to outsiders within this system, but it's 100% illegal and as a foreigner you would never, ever get away with it. The prices are very cheap in Zone 1 and 2 because you don't legally own the land and (especially within Zone 1) you're subject to the arbitrary whims of Apsara on what you can and can't do with your property (although I don't believe they have any plans for mass evictions from the Park).
Zones 3 to 6 are different; my wife and I own (legally titled) properties in Zone 3 and the only restrictions are that major commercial developments need prior Apsara approval. The new Apsara centre on Route 60 has a public information counter for exactly this kind of thing and should be able to tell you what zone you'd be in and what the restrictions are.
Note that majority Cambodian ownership rules still apply, as with all land in Cambodia.
If it's Zone 1 or 2 then it's state public property, not private land. In practise there is a de facto system of private land "ownership" and transfer, but it has no solid foundation in law, and is supposed to just allow the transfer of land rights (but not soft/hard legal title) between family members or neighbours. Of course, people routinely get away with "selling" property to outsiders within this system, but it's 100% illegal and as a foreigner you would never, ever get away with it. The prices are very cheap in Zone 1 and 2 because you don't legally own the land and (especially within Zone 1) you're subject to the arbitrary whims of Apsara on what you can and can't do with your property (although I don't believe they have any plans for mass evictions from the Park).
Zones 3 to 6 are different; my wife and I own (legally titled) properties in Zone 3 and the only restrictions are that major commercial developments need prior Apsara approval. The new Apsara centre on Route 60 has a public information counter for exactly this kind of thing and should be able to tell you what zone you'd be in and what the restrictions are.
Note that majority Cambodian ownership rules still apply, as with all land in Cambodia.
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I have inspected the house but not sure where it is on the map, have to enquire with GF. More later.
Situation is, it's a house owned by long-standing friends of my GF who have split up and are offering it for sale. ATM unoccupied but guarded.
It's a magnificent free-standing house on a generous size block, completed not long ago. Very specious inside with 5 very large bedrooms - just how I like it. The husband suggested USD300,000 but GF says being in that region should be below USD200,000.
The wife already offered a "discount" and to us will also include all fixtures, fittings and furniture.
Situation is, it's a house owned by long-standing friends of my GF who have split up and are offering it for sale. ATM unoccupied but guarded.
It's a magnificent free-standing house on a generous size block, completed not long ago. Very specious inside with 5 very large bedrooms - just how I like it. The husband suggested USD300,000 but GF says being in that region should be below USD200,000.
The wife already offered a "discount" and to us will also include all fixtures, fittings and furniture.
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Sounds nice. Plenty of room for your girlfriend's sister.Don-Pierre de Plume wrote: It's a magnificent free-standing house on a generous size block, completed not long ago. Very specious inside with 5 very large bedrooms - just how I like it.
Follow my lame Twitter feed: @gavin_mac
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Jesus -- a quarter of a million -- I was thinking you maybe had a lazy 50 grand or something, at most. If it's in Zone 2 or especially Zone 1 then I personally wouldn't touch it. Don't invest anything more than you're prepared to lose. Don't forget that you'd be making an illegal transaction to acquire a property that you don't own, that you can't leverage, and that puts you at risk of serious shakedowns and/or arbitrary (and perfectly legal) repossession at any time.
What village is it in?
You know you can get several hundred m2 of prime riverfront property right in town, legally, for the same price, right?
What village is it in?
You know you can get several hundred m2 of prime riverfront property right in town, legally, for the same price, right?
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I am just told the house is in Zone 2.
Sangkat Kork Chork
Khom (Commune): Tropang Ses
Srouk (District): Siem Reap
So, not so good as we won't own the land. Hard to imagine they would force demolishion of these houses but I suppose they could evict and give it to their own people. Could cause a few sleepless nights...
The land is 30m by 40m (1200 m2). The two ladies are quarreling here: Asking 240,000 - offering 160,000.
Don't know much about property values or desirable places, but will look elsewhere also. No hurry though.
Gavinmac:
Yep, will ask GF which room we will reserve for her...
Sangkat Kork Chork
Khom (Commune): Tropang Ses
Srouk (District): Siem Reap
So, not so good as we won't own the land. Hard to imagine they would force demolishion of these houses but I suppose they could evict and give it to their own people. Could cause a few sleepless nights...
The land is 30m by 40m (1200 m2). The two ladies are quarreling here: Asking 240,000 - offering 160,000.
Don't know much about property values or desirable places, but will look elsewhere also. No hurry though.
Gavinmac:
Yep, will ask GF which room we will reserve for her...
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OK, that would be more like:
Srok (District): Siem Reap
Sangkat (Municipality, until recently ‘Khum’ or Commune): Kouk Chak
Phum (Village): Trapeang Ses
Trapeang Ses village straddles Zone 1 and 2 and beyond -- stretching all the way from the parking lot of Angkor Wat, nearly into town -- so you might want to double-check with Apsara about the zoning.
Even if it’s Zone 2 it’s bad news.
There’s a mapping/census project currently underway out in the protected zones, where Apsara is documenting traditional land tenure (such as it is, being state public land…). They’re not doing it for land titling purposes, they’re doing it to build some kind of register to manage land-use rights for the villagers who are supposed to be the traditional custodians of land within the Park.
Because of this, outsiders who’ve “bought” land in the Park, and/or anyone who’s illegally developed land out there (especially with brand-new 5-BR concrete villas!), are set to get screwed basically. Plus Apsara have proven lately that they’re not shy about sending in the bulldozers to enforce the law.
Sounds like your sellers have seen the writing on the wall and are desperately trying to dump the place. If it’s unoccupied as you say, they may even have been thrown out already pending demolition, or be avoiding the place for fear of arrest/extortion. (Who ever heard of a 5-BR house that didn’t have at least thirty-five Khmer people living in it?)
Do yourself a quarter-million-dollar favour and walk away.
Srok (District): Siem Reap
Sangkat (Municipality, until recently ‘Khum’ or Commune): Kouk Chak
Phum (Village): Trapeang Ses
Trapeang Ses village straddles Zone 1 and 2 and beyond -- stretching all the way from the parking lot of Angkor Wat, nearly into town -- so you might want to double-check with Apsara about the zoning.
Even if it’s Zone 2 it’s bad news.
There’s a mapping/census project currently underway out in the protected zones, where Apsara is documenting traditional land tenure (such as it is, being state public land…). They’re not doing it for land titling purposes, they’re doing it to build some kind of register to manage land-use rights for the villagers who are supposed to be the traditional custodians of land within the Park.
Because of this, outsiders who’ve “bought” land in the Park, and/or anyone who’s illegally developed land out there (especially with brand-new 5-BR concrete villas!), are set to get screwed basically. Plus Apsara have proven lately that they’re not shy about sending in the bulldozers to enforce the law.
Sounds like your sellers have seen the writing on the wall and are desperately trying to dump the place. If it’s unoccupied as you say, they may even have been thrown out already pending demolition, or be avoiding the place for fear of arrest/extortion. (Who ever heard of a 5-BR house that didn’t have at least thirty-five Khmer people living in it?)
Do yourself a quarter-million-dollar favour and walk away.
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Ok, I have a document here which says (I think) that:
Building permitted to one single storey.
1. Signed by the Chief of the Village
2. Signed by the Chief of the Commune
3. Signed by the Chief of the District
They bribed the authority to allow construction of the second floor - but nothing to that effect in writing.
GF admits very high risk for us to buy. Shame... was designed by an Australian architect.
Scary... not good. Thank you for your guidance!
Building permitted to one single storey.
1. Signed by the Chief of the Village
2. Signed by the Chief of the Commune
3. Signed by the Chief of the District
They bribed the authority to allow construction of the second floor - but nothing to that effect in writing.
GF admits very high risk for us to buy. Shame... was designed by an Australian architect.
Scary... not good. Thank you for your guidance!
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Lots of people consider low-to-mid five figures to be worth the risk for a nice house and a bit of land within Zone 1 or 2, no matter what may come. Six figures, on the other hand....
I'm sorry, because it sounds like a nice house. Please make sure though to check 100% with Apsara which zone this property is actually in, including taking your own GPS points. People are often confused about this (there are some legacy coordinate system problems with the various maps in use) and if it turns out that you’re actually in Zone 3 or less, then you’ll be in business.
I'm sorry, because it sounds like a nice house. Please make sure though to check 100% with Apsara which zone this property is actually in, including taking your own GPS points. People are often confused about this (there are some legacy coordinate system problems with the various maps in use) and if it turns out that you’re actually in Zone 3 or less, then you’ll be in business.
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I'm Australian have a friend just completed Khmer style house in Siam Reap around 4 kilometres from a small temple though not anywhere near Angkor Wat. Apparently they are under some threat from the "Apsara National Authority" regarding possible eviction and threats from police etc. Just wondering how I can help her regarding this matter
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They have been clearing out illegal occupiers recently. There's nothing you can do about it.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
The new airport is to get a new highway. New, or enlarged feeder roads may be allowed to join it at a few points. I have no inside scoop on exactly where these will be, indeed I haven't seen the details of the main new highway on a map. (If anyone has a link, I'd much appreciate it.)
St 60 runs into a T intersection between the Siem Reap Booyoung Country Club (golf) and a 50 hectare APSARA headquarters, about 15km East of the original Angkor Wat ticket office, and 25km due West of the new airport. That these 3 points line up so well is certainly just a coincidence. Happily, Cambodia is littered with the ruins of ancient structures, and thus we may assume APSARA is fully justified in locating and claiming ancient digs near any potential airport road for which they would need to be at least unofficially compensated. Or, they might move the poor aside, claim the land, soon declare the site unimportant, sell the land to friends of relatives of the APSARA Deputy Director (or facsimile), who sells it to yet another person. (Who then learns the actual road alignment is 800m South, where the Governor bought.) Or, perhaps I'm just suspicious when I hear officials moving folks off their land.
St 60 runs into a T intersection between the Siem Reap Booyoung Country Club (golf) and a 50 hectare APSARA headquarters, about 15km East of the original Angkor Wat ticket office, and 25km due West of the new airport. That these 3 points line up so well is certainly just a coincidence. Happily, Cambodia is littered with the ruins of ancient structures, and thus we may assume APSARA is fully justified in locating and claiming ancient digs near any potential airport road for which they would need to be at least unofficially compensated. Or, they might move the poor aside, claim the land, soon declare the site unimportant, sell the land to friends of relatives of the APSARA Deputy Director (or facsimile), who sells it to yet another person. (Who then learns the actual road alignment is 800m South, where the Governor bought.) Or, perhaps I'm just suspicious when I hear officials moving folks off their land.
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