More on that elephant in the room:RobW wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 3:39 pmNot candyfloss at all. It's power that determines, pure and simple. If Israel didn't have great military capability we'd all be saying those poor Jews and those beastly Palestinians.
My view is that the current shit is a power play by Iran at the expense of Saudi. The poor Palestinians are the dispensable victims.
Weeping in Ramallah
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So many fucking experts- who'd have known?
While callous as it might sound when human lives are being lost, I can't be the only one to find both sides generally awful. It's like Man City Vs. Man Utd, when you hope both sides lose.
It's eventually going to die down for a few years, while the Pal kids who survive get older and braver, the Izzys get more divided into the hippies and whackos and corrupt, then, somewhere around 2040 it'll all kick off again.
No fucker is blameless either there, or elsewhere, so pretending otherwise is on a hiding to nothing. Depressing as that may be.
While callous as it might sound when human lives are being lost, I can't be the only one to find both sides generally awful. It's like Man City Vs. Man Utd, when you hope both sides lose.
It's eventually going to die down for a few years, while the Pal kids who survive get older and braver, the Izzys get more divided into the hippies and whackos and corrupt, then, somewhere around 2040 it'll all kick off again.
No fucker is blameless either there, or elsewhere, so pretending otherwise is on a hiding to nothing. Depressing as that may be.
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I've tried, on this thread, raising the issue of how do we proceed, however both sides on this site are invested in attributing blame rather than finding solutions, so it gained no traction.Bong Burgundy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:29 pmIt's eventually going to die down for a few years, while the Pal kids who survive get older and braver, the Izzys get more divided into the hippies and whackos and corrupt, then, somewhere around 2040 it'll all kick off again.
Solutions are hard, involve compromise and all too often failure due to vested interests in continued conflict or subjugation. It doesn't mean they aren't worth the effort.
Israel will either become a vibrant, multicultural democracy or it will face increasing isolation from the rest of the world and collapse from within. Israel is in a precarious position. International trade is necessary to their survival. With dwindling support in America, it is only a matter of time before international pressure will be great enough to force Israel to start making serious concessions.
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Meh. It's a tiny speck of desert, the size of which cannot be understated. It's tiny, like the whole of Israel is 22,000km2 and what's called Palestine 6,000. That's sandwiched on the landmass scale between Fiji and Haiti.Harold wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:44 pmIsrael will either become a vibrant, multicultural democracy or it will face increasing isolation from the rest of the world and collapse from within. Israel is in a precarious position. International trade is necessary to their survival. With dwindling support in America, it is only a matter of time before international pressure will be great enough to force Israel to start making serious concessions.
The only reason anyone cares is because of a stupid book with 2 sequels, and European history from the early middle ages to WW2.
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As did I. It’s the too hard basket for people who feel incompetent to effect change in such a situation - or just don’t do that kind of thinkingPrahok wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:13 pmI've tried, on this thread, raising the issue of how do we proceed, however both sides on this site are invested in attributing blame rather than finding solutions, so it gained no traction.Bong Burgundy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:29 pmIt's eventually going to die down for a few years, while the Pal kids who survive get older and braver, the Izzys get more divided into the hippies and whackos and corrupt, then, somewhere around 2040 it'll all kick off again.
Solutions are hard, involve compromise and all too often failure due to vested interests in continued conflict or subjugation. It doesn't mean they aren't worth the effort.
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There have been countless proposed solutions over the last 75 years so I wouldn't expect any feasible solution from anyone posting here. The reactionary position by posters to blame is to be expected as we are continually confronted with a humanitarian crisis.violet wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:42 pmAs did I. It’s the too hard basket for people who feel incompetent to effect change in such a situation - or just don’t do that kind of thinkingPrahok wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:13 pmI've tried, on this thread, raising the issue of how do we proceed, however both sides on this site are invested in attributing blame rather than finding solutions, so it gained no traction.Bong Burgundy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:29 pmIt's eventually going to die down for a few years, while the Pal kids who survive get older and braver, the Izzys get more divided into the hippies and whackos and corrupt, then, somewhere around 2040 it'll all kick off again.
Solutions are hard, involve compromise and all too often failure due to vested interests in continued conflict or subjugation. It doesn't mean they aren't worth the effort.
No one wants to see countless civilians, especially children, senselessly losing their lives regardless of what instigated it.
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There will be next steps once the shooting stops, regardless of how difficult it is to implement.Dylan Quint wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:13 amThere have been countless proposed solutions over the last 75 years so I wouldn't expect any feasible solution from anyone posting here. The reactionary position by posters to blame is to be expected as we are continually confronted with a humanitarian crisis.
No one wants to see countless civilians, especially children, senselessly losing their lives regardless of what instigated it.
These are what I was trying to discuss; short-term economic, security and administrative steps once the shooting stops. The role of the Palestinian Authority and the level of presence of the IDF for example.
People can throw your hands in the air whilst declaring it is all too hard, however decisions will need to be made regardless.
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Great postDylan Quint wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:13 amThere have been countless proposed solutions over the last 75 years so I wouldn't expect any feasible solution from anyone posting here. The reactionary position by posters to blame is to be expected as we are continually confronted with a humanitarian crisis.violet wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:42 pmAs did I. It’s the too hard basket for people who feel incompetent to effect change in such a situation - or just don’t do that kind of thinkingPrahok wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:13 pmI've tried, on this thread, raising the issue of how do we proceed, however both sides on this site are invested in attributing blame rather than finding solutions, so it gained no traction.Bong Burgundy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:29 pmIt's eventually going to die down for a few years, while the Pal kids who survive get older and braver, the Izzys get more divided into the hippies and whackos and corrupt, then, somewhere around 2040 it'll all kick off again.
Solutions are hard, involve compromise and all too often failure due to vested interests in continued conflict or subjugation. It doesn't mean they aren't worth the effort.
No one wants to see countless civilians, especially children, senselessly losing their lives regardless of what instigated it.
Honestly for me personally it's the collateral damage that rattles me. I am not a fan of either side by any means. Just hard to watch the most sophisticated military with all the gear drilling civilians getting around a bomb site on a donkey cart.
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Don't mention the Giant Panda in the room.
And there lays the problem, the shooting will never stop. The supply of guns and other weapons will never end and the hatred between Israel Jews and Palestinians Muslims will never end because it's all about land and who owns it.Prahok wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:35 amThere will be next steps once the shooting stops, regardless of how difficult it is to implement.Dylan Quint wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:13 amThere have been countless proposed solutions over the last 75 years so I wouldn't expect any feasible solution from anyone posting here. The reactionary position by posters to blame is to be expected as we are continually confronted with a humanitarian crisis.
No one wants to see countless civilians, especially children, senselessly losing their lives regardless of what instigated it.
These are what I was trying to discuss; short-term economic, security and administrative steps once the shooting stops. The role of the Palestinian Authority and the level of presence of the IDF for example.
People can throw your hands in the air whilst declaring it is all too hard, however decisions will need to be made regardless.
My heart goes out to the innocent children and babies that suffer and have no choice as to who runs the country and who wants to kill someone. They all deserve a better life and future that what is being offered to them now.
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Actually no, one side will pummel the other, then things will happen. They may be horrific things, they may be positive, most likely a blend, but they will happen.Cooker wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:19 amAnd there lays the problem, the shooting will never stop. The supply of guns and other weapons will never end and the hatred between Israel Jews and Palestinians Muslims will never end because it's all about land and who owns it.Prahok wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:35 amThere will be next steps once the shooting stops, regardless of how difficult it is to implement.
These are what I was trying to discuss; short-term economic, security and administrative steps once the shooting stops. The role of the Palestinian Authority and the level of presence of the IDF for example.
People can throw your hands in the air whilst declaring it is all too hard, however decisions will need to be made regardless.
My heart goes out to the innocent children and babies that suffer and have no choice as to who runs the country and who wants to kill someone. They all deserve a better life and future that what is being offered to them now.
One question is who will administer Gaza once the primary fighting is over. The Palestinian Authority may be able to play a role, backed with Gulf-state and EU funds for critical infrastructure reconstruction, however it will require Israeli Government support as the IDF are highly likely to maintain a heavy security presence for some time.
Hamas are not going to be happy, however the involvement of the Gulf-states is likely to temper that (both being Sunni). Netanyahu is also unlikely to be thrilled, so pressure from the USA is likely required.
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What about Turkey, Russia or China...Legit question, does anyone think these emerging alternative super powers could wade in? Because the old United States mantra on the shitfight is almost played out...Just saying.
Don't mention the Giant Panda in the room.
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Thanks for the clip MF...Sheds light on an alternative point of view.Mike Farce wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:58 pmMore on that elephant in the room:RobW wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 3:39 pmNot candyfloss at all. It's power that determines, pure and simple. If Israel didn't have great military capability we'd all be saying those poor Jews and those beastly Palestinians.
My view is that the current shit is a power play by Iran at the expense of Saudi. The poor Palestinians are the dispensable victims.
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Don't mention the Giant Panda in the room.
a nuclear armed cats paw to keep the house of Saud in line, along with Iran.Bong Burgundy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:14 pmMeh. It's a tiny speck of desert, the size of which cannot be understated. It's tiny, like the whole of Israel is 22,000km2 and what's called Palestine 6,000. That's sandwiched on the landmass scale between Fiji and Haiti.Harold wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:44 pmIsrael will either become a vibrant, multicultural democracy or it will face increasing isolation from the rest of the world and collapse from within. Israel is in a precarious position. International trade is necessary to their survival. With dwindling support in America, it is only a matter of time before international pressure will be great enough to force Israel to start making serious concessions.
The only reason anyone cares is because of a stupid book with 2 sequels, and European history from the early middle ages to WW2.